[silence] Messiaen & Cage

[Carl Heppenstall]

Hi, David,

I did not intend to dismiss the purposeful lack of organization of some forms of serialism or chance operations, nor did I mean to imply that "cage is done."  I was merely reflecting that for me, when people create music with the intent on making perfect systems that destroy the perception of organization, the consequence is often music that can only be appreciated for the technical aspects, and for me, have very little of what I enjoy hearing in music that is created out of the stillness to which Cage often indirectly referred.

Thanks,
Carl

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David P Miller<mailto:dpmiller@world.std.com> 
  To: Carl Heppenstall<mailto:Heppenstall_at_KC@msn.com> 
  Cc: silence@list.mail.virginia.edu<mailto:silence@list.mail.virginia.edu> 
  Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 11:35 AM
  Subject: Re: [silence] Messiaen & Cage


  Hello, Carl --

  I'm curious to know a little bit more about what you mean:

  On Mon, 2 Apr 2007, Carl Heppenstall wrote:

  > Ralph, Very interesting.
  >
  > Generally, the organization and nature of the organization probably interests me more than a purposeful lack of organization, but in the end, however the music is created, it must reflect our chaotic or "un-conscious" interaction with the natural stillness of the universe for me to enjoy it.  Often we get so caught up in the technical mastery of what is getting created and we lose one of the purposes of art - creating music that can reach the soul.
  >
  > Cage did his work at getting us to listen to the natural stillness and the space and things interacting with and underlying our consciousness, but once that mission was accomplished, why do we need to continue to create similar art that merely points to the thing but is not reflective of the thing?

  Do you really mean that Cage's work has been "accomplished" for good and 
  all, for all persons and all time (just to put it starkly)? Aside from the 
  fact that he passed away, I mean.

  > Best Regards,
  > Carl

  Thanks,

  David M.
  dpmiller@world.std.com<mailto:dpmiller@world.std.com>

  >  ----- Original Message -----
  >  From: Ralph Lichtensteiger<mailto:lichtconlon@t-online.de<mailto:lichtconlon@t-onlinede>>
  >  To: silence@list.mail.virginia.edu<mailto:silence@list.mail.virginia.edu<mailto:silence@list.mail.virginia.edu%3Cmailto:silence@list.mail.virginia.edu>>
  >  Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:54 PM
  >  Subject: [silence] Messiaen & Cage
  >
  >
  >  Dear silencers,
  >  thank you all for your great comments about Messiaen & Cage.
  >  They are very helpful and inciting for me. Thanks a lot !
  >  The antagonism (antithesis) Cage / Messiaen opens a wide range of interesting thoughts.
  >
  >
  >  "Natural sounds suggest music to us, but are not yet themselves music. Tonal elements become music only by virtue of their being organized, and that such organization presupposes a conscious human act." - Igor Stravinsky: Poetics of Music, Harvard University Press, 1942, S. 23
  >
  >
  >  in opposition to Cage's "anti-organization" of sound.
  >
  >
  >  Kind regards,
  >  ralph lichtensteiger
  >  http://del.icio.us/lichtconlon<http://del.icio.us/lichtconlon<http://del.icio.us/lichtconlon%3Chttp://del.icio.us/lichtconlon>>
  >  http://time4time.blogspot.com/<http://time4time.blogspot.com/<http://time4time.blogspot.com/%3Chttp://time4time.blogspot.com/>>
  >  http://www.lichtensteiger.de/<http://www.lichtensteiger.de/music_room.html<http://www.lichtensteiger.de/%3Chttp://www.lichtensteiger.de/music_roomhtml>>
  >
  >
  >
  >  --
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