[silence] Messiaen & Cage

[Neal W. Meyer]

Thank you all for the generally fascinating discussion on Messiaen and Cage. 
Serendipitously, I just saw (and this evening saw again) the new film "Into 
Great Silence," which, for me, manages successfully to embrace both the 
Cagean and Messiaenian (?) universes.

The film is a kind of documentary on a Carthusian monastery.  No narration 
or soundtrack music, only the environmental sound recorded during each shot, 
and mostly the sound level was no louder than the projector and ventilation 
in the movie theater.  Also interesting juxtapositions of grainy super 8 
film with higher resolution film stocks.   All of this struck me as very 
like many Cage performances I've attended, including the phenomenon of 
continuing to hear ambient sound in a heightened musical kind of way after 
the film was over.

The content of the film, with its litany-like repetitions of scripture and 
spiritual poetry, chant and documents of other Catholic ritual provided the 
Messiaen-ic side.

If possible see this in a theater--it's quite a remarkable experience. 
Anyone else seen it?

Neal
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David P Miller" <dpmiller@world.std.com>
To: "Carl Heppenstall" <Heppenstall_at_KC@msn.com>
Cc: <silence@list.mail.virginia.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: [silence] Messiaen & Cage


> Hello, Carl --
>
> Yes, now I see what you mean. Thank you!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> David
>
> On Thu, 5 Apr 2007, Carl Heppenstall wrote:
>
>> Hi, David,
>>
>> I did not intend to dismiss the purposeful lack of organization of some 
>> forms of serialism or chance operations, nor did I mean to imply that 
>> "cage is done."  I was merely reflecting that for me, when people create 
>> music with the intent on making perfect systems that destroy the 
>> perception of organization, the consequence is often music that can only 
>> be appreciated for the technical aspects, and for me, have very little of 
>> what I enjoy hearing in music that is created out of the stillness to 
>> which Cage often indirectly referred.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Carl
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: David P Miller<mailto:dpmiller@world.std.com>
>>  To: Carl Heppenstall<mailto:Heppenstall_at_KC@msn.com>
>>  Cc: 
>> silence@list.mail.virginia.edu<mailto:silence@list.mail.virginia.edu>
>>  Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 11:35 AM
>>  Subject: Re: [silence] Messiaen & Cage
>>
>>  Hello, Carl --
>>
>>  I'm curious to know a little bit more about what you mean:
>>
>>  On Mon, 2 Apr 2007, Carl Heppenstall wrote:
>>
>>  > Ralph, Very interesting.
>>  >
>>  > Generally, the organization and nature of the organization probably 
>> interests me more than a purposeful lack of organization, but in the end, 
>> however the music is created, it must reflect our chaotic or 
>> "un-conscious" interaction with the natural stillness of the universe for 
>> me to enjoy it.  Often we get so caught up in the technical mastery of 
>> what is getting created and we lose one of the purposes of art - creating 
>> music that can reach the soul.
>>  >
>>  > Cage did his work at getting us to listen to the natural stillness and 
>> the space and things interacting with and underlying our consciousness, 
>> but once that mission was accomplished, why do we need to continue to 
>> create similar art that merely points to the thing but is not reflective 
>> of the thing?
>>
>>  Do you really mean that Cage's work has been "accomplished" for good and
>>  all, for all persons and all time (just to put it starkly)? Aside from 
>> the
>>  fact that he passed away, I mean.
>>
>>  > Best Regards,
>>  > Carl
>>
>>  Thanks,
>>
>>  David M.
>>  dpmiller@world.std.com<mailto:dpmiller@world.std.com>
>
> --
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