[silence] Aesthetics

Sat Feb 21 16:34:19 EST 2009

Ah, so you have your own definition, then, of divine; divine without  
divinity, or with your own wishfulness attached? Or maybe it was just  
a manner of speech, kind of? Maybe you're talking about heightened  
awareness, of enlightenment or the road to such a state. In that case  
I understand you better.

Loco

21 feb 2009 kl. 21.57 skrev Carl Heppenstall:

> When I contemplate being "susceptible to divine influences", I do  
> not think of those negative things cited.  I think of becoming aware  
> of the beauty of the world - Divine might = love. Those religious  
> things cited are = fear.  So the two motives are seeking those  
> divine influences, a positive effort, looking for the good, or  
> seeking to not have intention, negative in the lack of effort, which  
> may indeed point you to the good.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: loco.nordin@mbox200.swipnet.se
> To: mitchellrenner@msn.com
> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:51:46 +0100
> CC: silence@list.mail.virginia.edu
> Subject: Re: [silence] Aesthetics
>
> "Divine influences" seem to mean - to most people here - something  
> good. I wonder why that is. Do you automatically presuppose that  
> gods are good? Look into Greek mythology, and you'll find that that  
> isn't always so. Or look into the Bible and find the rivers of blood  
> flowing, for example from the little boys that ridiculed a bald man;  
> even stark for the most hardheaded of today, don't you think? And,  
> hey, look at the world! Left by God, or run by him/her/it? And if  
> God is the same as The Universe, then WE are God, since there is  
> absolutely NO difference, at "core" level, between us and anything  
> else; just energy quanta.
>
> The other matter, of non-intention, was, of course, a way for Cage  
> to try to get as far away as practically possible from letting his  
> own personality or preferences come in the way of the sounds; of the  
> music. Is that negative??? I think it's both humble and truly  
> positively experimental!
>
> Loco
>
>
> 19 feb 2009 kl. 21.00 skrev MITCHELL RENNER:
>
> I couldn't help but laugh at this one, as my memory fails me, and it  
> seems like gibberish on my part.  Let's see...
>
> In the earlier interviews and media references I came across  
> studying Cage's life several years ago, it seemed that the aspect of  
> non-intentionality or non-purpose was mentioned more than the aspect  
> of sobering and quieting the mind for receptiveness to divine  
> influence.  That was somewhat startling for me, because I didn't  
> think you could understand Cage's music without realizing both  
> aspects.  People were clamoring about this music which had no  
> purpose at all (the negative), but absolutely, it had a purpose, as  
> did 4'33" and all of Cage's works (to renunciate in order to be  
> susceptible, to be empty in order to be receptive...).  One can  
> choose to view only the negative, but there was a positive aspect as  
> well, and I was always surprised when the one was mentioned and not  
> the other.  But, isn't that typical of media - to get it all wrong,  
> and emphasize only a one-sided view of life, which ultimately can  
> only be viewed subjectively?
>
> It would be interesting to know if Cage said anything about these  
> ideals towards the end of his life; if they changed, remained with  
> him, or maybe were subsumed to the point of not thinking much at all  
> about them.  Certainly they were powerful moral and aesthetic  
> compasses in his work, and a reason why his work will continue to be  
> of interest to others.
>
> Mystics live longer than others in that way.
>
> >I pondered this for several minutes and determined that "being  
> >susceptible to divine influences" is surely positive, and having a  
> lack >of purpose is either negative or is depressing, but together,  
> they >seem to be very beneficial, both of them.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Carl
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: silence-bounces@list.mail.virginia.edu
> > [mailto:silence-bounces@list.mail.virginia.edu] On Behalf Of Glenn
> > Freeman
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 3:47 PM
> > To: silence@list.mail.virginia.edu
> > Subject: Re: [silence] Aesthetics
> >
> > ok. which one is which?
> >
> > Mitchell Renner wrote:
> >
> > > In my studies of Cage, I realized two main stated purposes - one,
> > of non-intentionality or lack of purpose, as you mention;
> > > and two, "to sober and quiet the mind, thus making it susceptible
> > to divine influences." (from Coomaraswamy)
> > > Notice one is a negative and one a positive.
> >
> > Glenn Freeman
>
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