TROPLIST: Are embryos animals?

[Jeremy Green]

Hi Kris,

Here is a link to the official guidance notes to the legislation:

http://www.archive.official-documents.co.uk/document/hoc/321/321-00.htm

in which the section in Chapter 2 "Definition of a Protected Animal"  
lays things out pretty clearly. (You can see the original wording of  
the Act of Parliament in Appendix A of the guidance notes - it's  
clearly set out even there, once you get past the formal introduction)

Hopefully that's helpful to you and anyone who might be interested.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that the U.S. legislation is  
intentionally vague on this issue because of the issues surrounding  
embryos and abortion, so what I did when I was doing this in the U.S.  
was to ask the chairman of the IACUC what he wanted.  The first  
chairman didn't care and the second a few years later wanted me to  
include embryos.

Regards,

Jeremy

Jeremy B.A. Green Ph.D.
Reader in Developmental Cell Biology
Kings College London
Department of Craniofacial Development
Guys Tower, Floor 27
London SE1 9RT
UK

jeremy.green@kcl.ac.uk
Tel. +44 20 7188 1794
http://myprofile.cos.com/greenj45





On 12 Aug 2008, at 14:06, kris vleminckx wrote:

> Hi Jeremy,
>
> I was very interested in reading your mail to Nick since we are facing
> the same criteria questions here in Belgium. Do you happen to have  
> a ref
> or link to the regulation from the UK home office?
>
> Regards
>
> Kris
>
>
> Jeremy Green wrote:
>> Dear Nick,
>>
>> The Home Office in the UK considers that amphibian embryos are not
>> classified as regulated animals until independent feeding stage (and
>> they also have explicit criteria for a whole range of other  
>> species and
>> classes). This seems like as good a criterion as any.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>> Jeremy B.A. Green Ph.D.
>>
>> Reader in Developmental Cell Biology
>>
>> Kings College London
>>
>> Department of Craniofacial Development
>>
>> Guys Tower, Floor 27
>>
>> London SE1 9RT
>>
>> UK
>>
>>
>> jeremy.green@kcl.ac.uk <mailto:jeremy.green@kcl.ac.uk>
>>
>> Tel. +44 20 7188 1794
>>
>> http://myprofile.cos.com/greenj45
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11 Aug 2008, at 17:37, Hirsch, Nicolas wrote:
>>
>>> Does your IACUC consider embryos or tadpoles to be “animals” that  
>>> must
>>> be accounted for in animal protocols? I’m currently writing my  
>>> animal
>>> use protocol and have been grappling with this question.
>>>
>>> OLAW’s FAQ page says amphibian and fish “larvae” are animals for the
>>> purposes of regulation, but I can’t find anywhere what stage is
>>> considered the beginning of larval life. I’ve been corresponding  
>>> with
>>> Kim Taylor, a vet at OLAW, and her opinion is that embryos are not
>>> animals until “hatching”. This applies to chick embryos, which are
>>> obviously very highly developed before hatching from the eggshell.
>>>  Since amphibian embryologists define “hatching” differently, I’m
>>> thinking early embryos wouldn’t be regulated but that tadpoles would
>>> be. This doesn’t make much logical sense, of course, but when have
>>> bureaucracies been great lovers of logic?
>>>
>>> Your experiences or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Nick Hirsch
>>>
>>>
>>> *_________________________________________________*
>>>
>>> *Dr. Nick Hirsch*
>>> *Department of Biology*
>>> *Hiram College*
>>> *Hiram, Ohio   44234*
>>>
>>> *Phone: 330-569-5848*
>>> *Email: **hirschn@hiram.edu* <mailto:hirschn@hiram.edu>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> Kris Vleminckx, PhD
> Dept. Molecular Biomedical Research
> Unit of Developmental Biology
> VIB - Ghent University
> Technologiepark 927
> B-9052 Ghent (Zwijnaarde), Belgium
>
> Tel : +32-(0)9-33-13720 (office)/13722 (lab)
> Fax : +32-(0)9-33-13609
> E-mail : kris.vleminckx@dmbr.UGent.be
> URL: http://www.dmbr.UGent.be

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